In which I am crass and discuss money

[sorcyress]

It was brought to my attention that I do not especially know how to budget¹.

That's mostly okay, in that I've been a dumb privileged white kid for the last bunch of years, and one of the infinite advantages of having parents willing to pay for college is that they pay for room and board too. Budgeting for me has exclusively thus far been "do I have enough money for that event I want to go to" and I can more or less afford that on babysitting.

But I'm going to join the real world somewhere in the next 3-6 months, and not only do I not have a great grasp on how much the world is going to cost, I don't think I have a particularly good grasp on what I'm going to be spending that money on. A friend mentioned that he was paying about a thousand a month, for everything except rent and utilities, and I certainly *think* I can keep my expenses under that number², but I don't know if I'm managing to account for everything I'll need to spend money on.

So that's what I'm really asking for: What things am I going to be spending money on that I don't necessarily realize I'll spend money on?

Sitting down and thinking about it, I know there's:

*Rent and utilities
*Groceries/eating out (which is a huge "I have no idea" since I've been living off my meal plan for three and a half years --I imagine I should be able to keep myself fed grocery-wise for a hundred a week, I think that's about what I've spent on the (very few) times when I've had to fend for myself.)
*Dance, which is non-negotiable. If I can afford it in September, I should _absolutely_ get a season pass for SCD, which changes the shape of how much dance costs per month.

(as an aside, that's one of the things I'm finding complicated about trying to write a budget for myself, in that "monthly expenses" is easier than dividing "expenses per semester" by three, or trying to work out how much a year-pass would cost and when I would need that money and such.)

*Transit, which I imagine is hugely variable. If I only ever took the T places, it would be a straight 60/month, but I also have a bike to repair and a future zipcar membership, and taxis and stuff. But on the flip side, if the bike is in good shape, and the weather is nice, I can spend maybe like fifteen dollars on the T and spend the rest of my necessary transit time riding my bike.
*Laundry, which becomes more important as I have to wear more professional clothing, since I don't have enough of said clothing, and therefore have to do laundry more often.
*Also, buying more clothing of the professional sort. I mean, I rock the thrift-store chic so hard, so I'd like to hope I wouldn't be spending too terribly much on this, but it's still a thing.
*Meds
*Other hospitaly/medical things, knock on wood. I don't think this counts as a monthly budget thing, so much as a "I should try to set aside a couple hundred(thousand?) dollars as soon as possible to be my "oh shit oh shit I just broke my leg" fund³.

And...what else? The last time I did anything like this it was in my seventh grade home ec class, where I think I was "renting" an apartment for 50 dollars a month, so it's not like I was exactly being taught accurate numbers for the real world so much as "here's how to balance your monies!"

The real world is hard, whine whine. But dammit, if I'm going to be an adult⁴, I might as well do it right, and not have to rely on other adults (read: my parents) for taking care of me.

Just rely on them for advice.

~Sor
MOOP!

1: I have gotten as far as "If there is money in my account I can buy things, if there is not, I can't" and seem to do okay with that, but, uh, yeah.

2: More importantly, doing some googling and finding out how much I will make as a teacher implies that (assuming I get a job), I should be making at least 24k a year, which gives me enough for rent/utilities and "everything else". Assuming that my combined rent+utilities is in the thousand dollars or less range, which I think is an okay guess considering the places I've been looking at with Ria and Lauren and Mason.

3: Although, assuming I broke my leg, I could just transfer my dance fund to medical. Gods forbid.

4: I think I've decided that I don't want to be an adult because adults are ridiculously dramatic, often uncommunicative, and generally immature. I'd like to be mature instead. It seems much easier.

Postscript: And yes, I am writing actual numbers for these in another file, in a "trying to inflate everything so I wind up with too much money rather than too little" sort of way. But I figured that would be too gauche even for me to post.

And not in the file yet, because I don't know what the shape of my life will be like yet, is the concept of long-distance travel in order to spend time with faraway friends and SOs. Which could be eighty dollars a month for train tickets, or 500plus for a cross-country plane ride. Plane tickets are definitely my most expensive regular expense.

Also not in the file is the general thought of "here are things I want" and taking steps to buy those things. One of the reasons I want to have some discretionary income is so that I can start scouting sales for expensive things I want/need, so that when they show up for a decent price, I can get them without stressing that I've just wrecked my budget for the month. See also, the fact that I think I want 3 TB of external storage --one for job^a, one for backup, and one for media.

a: If everything stayed the same, I don't think I would _ever_ fill a TB of stuff just of assignments and resources and grades and worksheets and lessons and everything teaching will require. But things keep taking up more and more space, and inevitably I'll be teaching Skype lessons with an uberboard or something, and each lesson will be a gig and a half or something.

Comments

[cos]

Saving, which you may neglect to do if you don't plan on it.

1. Short term savings, where you accumulate money over the course 6 months or 2 years or something like that, for a specific purpose like a camera or your next computer or a trip somewhere.

2. Long term savings, to an IRA, for the distant future (or maybe a house). A little bit goes a long way when you start early.

[whimmydiddle.livejournal.com]

There will be a big initial cost for basic furnishings & supplies fie wherever you live--furniture, linens towels, kitchen equipment, toilet paper.
Toiletries.
Cleaning supplies.
Planning on a pet? Food, vet, bedding, treats, toys, grooming supplies.
Get health insurance. You can continue in your parents' plan fir a few more years thanks to Obamacare.
Bicycle maintenance.
Utilities, cable, phone.
Seasonal stuff--snow shovel.
Eyeglasses

All of that is just off the top of my head having not read you post thoroughly-- I'm at work on my iPhone.

tangentially

[woozle.livejournal.com]

I think people should talk about money more. With real numbers. It seems to me that the social rule against talking about money mainly benefits people who have... a very high X, where Income = X*(value delivered).

There are probably people_A out there who couldn't deal with anyone_B having even slightly more than they_A do, even if those other people_B work harder and/or have more obligations to meet, but I think those people_A are actually not all that common and you probably wouldn't want to be having a conversation with them_A anyway.

As for the actual topic of your post: a lot hinges on how much you actually have to spend on rent. I've been told that you shouldn't spend more than about 30% of your budget on rent. The obvious corollary is that whatever your rent is, you should expect to need about 3 times that much income overall in order to meet your other expenses. I'm not sure how reliably true this is.

Oh, and for the historical record: wow, what year was that curriculum written? I first started renting in 1985, and the least I ever paid was $200/month for a seedy semi-legal apartment with a shared bathroom (complete with hoarder to keep it free of toiletries at all times).

[jazzfish]

Your fn1 is the important part, really.

Put money into savings if at all possible. This is partly for "the miracle of compound interest," and more to get yourself into the habit of having the savings account be the one where money goes /into/ and not /out of/. Even $25-50 a month helps. And as noted, if you don't plan for it, you're likely to not do it.

If you can automate that, so much the better. Work lets me split my direct deposit among several accounts, so my checking account never even sees the money for savings. If that's not an option then maybe set up automatic recurring transfers with your bank from checking to savings.

(Ideally you want to have 3-6 months worth of expenses in a savings account where you can get at it quickly if necessary.)

Okay, savings rant over. Looks to me like you've covered most everything else. Don't forget to account for insurance and glasses in the 'other medical' category, and cell phone under 'utilities.'

Budgets suck. Saying "I will spend this much" is a good way for me to feel guilty when I spend more than that. What worked for me was tracking expenses and saying "okay, I usually spend about this much on this thing, which means I have this much left over for that other thing." Because I'm a geek and in front of a computer all day I built a spreadsheet, and I've entered every single thing I spent money on into it for the last five years, categorized and all that. (This has the added effect of keeping me from buying snacks from the machine because I don't want to have to enter "0.80: chips at work.")

It looks like my 'household expenses' (mostly groceries but also cleaning supplies and trips to the thrift store for clothing etc) came in at under $200/month while I was living by myself in (not-cheap) northern Virginia. As always, YMMV.

Lots of irregular expenses can be guesstimated: 'about how many times will i use the T in a week: two? three? how much does that cost? multiply by four' kind of thing.

Looking at your math... is your fn2 taking into account that you'll be paying 20-25% of that 24k/year in taxes?

As whimmydiddle says, setting up an apartment has a large initial expense. That's a place where (generalising broadly) it's probably okay to ask for parental/etc help.

Also, yay you for a) thinking and b) seeking advice about money.

[ms-hecubus.livejournal.com]

In my opinion $100 a week is a huge amount to allocate for food for one person. I feed our entire family, buy diapers, toiletries and cleaning supplies on $100 a week. Plus, when you're starting out spending that amount might not be realistic. If you have roommates to offset other costs you might be able to spend more, but I was using about $40 a week when I was single.

[macaroniandtuna.livejournal.com]

I'm happy to share my whole personal financial management system with you via email if you like, just ask. Highlights for now though.

- Junior and senior year, when I was renting an apartment off campus, rent+utilities (electricity, TV, and internet only, water and heat were included in the rent)+groceries+renters insurance ran me I'd estimate at about $900 per month, maybe $1000.
- You may or may not want to set up automatic bill pay for recurring expenses. I don't do that myself; having to pay bills manually forces me to keep track of what I'm spending, and keeps reminding me that whatever a given bill is is a part of my budget. A lot of people find it useful though.
- "If there is money in my account I can buy things, if there is not, I can't" - That's better than a lot of people do, sadly. Be careful with credit.
- Speaking of credit, if you don't have one, get a (one is enough) credit card and use it for whatever you normally spend money on. Having a (good) credit history is important.
- Travel is indeed expensive. Even with gas at $3.50/gal I'd bet driving is cheapest, whatever the distance, although it's almost as slow as taking a train (can be) and you have to concentrate on driving, instead of doing whatever like you can on a plane or train or (god forbid) bus. (This from someone who has no problem sleeping at a rest stop before pressing on - you may want a hotel room instead, which obviously changes the price.) More drivers traveling with you in the same car decreases your share of the cost and increases the speed at which you can travel, since you don't necessarily need to stop altogether to rest, just switch drivers.
- Bikes are cheap and easy to fix, enough that I'd call that a non-expense in a monthly budget. Get a couple spare tubes, some chain oil, and a decent set of bike-repair tools and you're good.
- Hard drives are cheap. I saw a good-quality 2TB single bare drive on Newegg for I think $80 the other day. Call it $110 when you add a good case for it. Tech and gadgets might be something you want to budget some amount of savings for, actually. Personally I build a new computer every three or four years, which seems to be the point at which tech and prices have progressed enough to make a serious hardware upgrade worth it to me.
- I've got about $1000 put away as an emergency fund, like your "oh shit I just broke my leg" fund. The key, I think, is to put it in its own account that isn't super-easy to access like the rest of your money (I figure if it takes a day or less to transfer to a usable account, it's not hard enough to access), and don't touch it unless absolutely necessary.
- Basically, spend as little as you can get away with while not depriving yourself too much, and save as much as you can stand to not use.

I don't think it's crass. More people should talk about money more often. It might encourage some self-reflection and learning or something. Self-awareness is key.

[austein]

Renter's insurance?
Is Internet included in the utilities calculation?

[jere7my.livejournal.com]

K and I spend around $120 a week on food for the house, toiletries, and cleaning supplies, and we have fairly expensive tastes (i.e., nice cheeses, non-generics, green cleaning supplies, etc.). On the other hand, she is a Mennonite and I am a Quaker, so we probably are unusually frugal. We usually eat out once a week, for $20-$30.

Our utilities are about $300/month + heat, which fluctuates wildly (between ~$50 and ~$300). Water is covered by rent. Besides heat, utilities include cell phones, fancy internet + cable package, and electricity; you can certainly do it cheaper. Our house is technically a 4BR, I think, and rent is ~$1900 (but we're a mile from the nearest T stop). Laundry works out to about $10/month.

When biking, I spend about $20/month on MBTA. When not, I get the $59 T pass. K drives to work in the winter, and drives to dance and grocery shopping; I'm not sure how much she spends on gas.

Beyond that, K and I live very frugally. In a typical week, I budget about twenty bucks for "mad money" — coffee and entertainment — though sometimes we fly to other countries or see a $50 concert or go out to dinner at a fancy place. I very rarely buy new clothes, but a professional clothing budget is something good to calculate (though a gift card for clothes might also be a good birthday request for relatives). Renters' insurance is a good thing to have, especially since it covers your bike even when it's not in your house.

[whimmydiddle.livejournal.com]

If yu will be joining any professional organizations, dues.

[gyrik-22.livejournal.com]

Let's see, shit I spend money on:

- rent
- utilities (gas/electric/internet)
- Phone bill
- Credit card paying (yes, I know, I know. Working on it)
- Student loan payoff
- insurance (Not currently but have in the past)
- food
- laundry

That covers most of it, I think. I'm pretty bad at keeping a budget (but I'm getting better), mainly because I don't receive a regular paycheck; my monthly income can swing between $200 and $1200, which is not fun let me tell you. I'll echo the conscious use of a savings account (I have one and a Keep the Change policy with BoA, which adds up surprisingly quickly).

One thing that I'm particularly bad about and haven't seen mentioned here; talk to someone knowledgeable (tax accountant or similar) about what you can do to minimize tax payments. Saving deductible receipts can go a LONG way to decreasing your tax costs, and depending on what you do just about anything can fly as a "business expensve" (since I'm in theater, movies/Netflix/shows all count as "research", lunches while at work are "business lunches", etc.). Again, I'm pretty bad at it right now but you can save a significant chunk if you do it right.

[crystalpyramid]

I second people saying $100/week is a lot for a food budget. We've been feeding 2-3 people on approximately that. Maybe $100/week for the first couple weeks, when you still need to buy staples like rice and salt and flour; after you've got things in your pantry, you can aim for a lot less. If work is too intense to justify a lot less, that's probably okay too, as long as you're getting by.

My teachers' union did a really good job of making saving money easy and obvious. Take a small amount out of your paycheck automatically each month, pre-tax, and you won't miss it. Otherwise don't mess around with CDs or other complicated things until you've got enough money set aside for 6 months rent or first/last/security if you had to move. Unless your employer really doesn't have retirement accounts or something.

The first year is the most expensive. I somehow burned through $53K my first year on startup expenses and the initial savings account and a fair amount of out-of-town travel. Since then I've had smaller salaries (low 40s) and it's been fine, but having a bed and furniture and a computer and dishes helped with that.

I've found it useful to have a credit card for expense smoothing, but you have to be really careful to use it responsibly, and not put more than a month or two's disposable income (minus rent, utilities, etc) on it at once.

Depending on how professional you need to look, thrift stores can still be awesome. You just have to beeline for the boring stuff. My proefssional wardrobe's still part Goodwill, part Target, and part gifts from family members who shop at real stores.

Get renters insurance. It's generally insanely cheap, like $80/year for the whole apartment, and in the event that something awful happens, you'll be glad.

[crystalpyramid]

I am really hoping $24K/year is an after-tax number. That's lower than I've seen anywhere.

[mrs-pansy.livejournal.com]

Lessee...a chunk of my paycheck regularly goes to:

mortgage and condo fee
phone bill
electricity bill
water bill
cable bill
cell phone bill
car insurance
health insurance
condo insurance
credit card bill
Blockbuster online
internet provider
groceries (including dog and cat food, litter, treats, and toys)
vet bills
gasoline
car maintenance
union dues
parking fees
subway fees
prescription drugs
medical bills
a latte every workday
dinner out 1-2x week
2 movies per week
daily dog-walker fees
regular donations to dog rescue
occasional clothing/shoes/jewelry purchases
beads and beading supplies
miscellaneous not-every-month purchases (holiday and birthday gifts, travel, etc.)
credit union contribution
401(k) contribution
stock plan contribution

I think that's it...
I agree that it's never too soon to save. But don't save beyond your means. I got a lot of good advice from visiting a financial planner a number of years ago. Didn't cost anything--they were offering mutual fund packages, but I wasn't required to purchase one. YMMV. Good luck!

[nurrynur.livejournal.com]

things to spend money on:

rent
utilities - water, gas, electricity, internet (30-50)
restaurants/outside food (my budget is 50-100 month)
groceries (i spend 100/month at most?)
fun fund - dancing, shows, impulse purchases, convention, travel, hobbies
office supplies for your house -yes you may need envelopes, file folders, stamps, to pay your bills/keep your records organized
other supplies - cleaning things, organizational things, hardware, tools for home repairs, tape, window film, extra keys
gifts for other people
decor and furniture for your house
clothing
auto insurance
gas
T fare
parking fees (meters/garage)
drycleaning (for professional wear that needs it)
laundry (if you live somewhere with a coinop machine or need to go to a laundromat)
subscriptions (magazines, comics, etc)
regular or irregular charity contributions
auto repairs/maintenance
renter's insurance

health/dental/vision insurance (don't forget to budget for copays even if you have work that gives you insurance - $20 for most office visits)
if you don't have vision coverage you'll probably end up paying 80-100 for the exam plus anywhere from 100 to 400 for the glasses. Even with insurance, I wanted anti-reflective coating, lighter lenses, etc, which cost me $100 on top of what my vision insurance was paying.

medications (prescription and OTC) - you might be able to get free things at your student health center. My health center offered free bottles of pain relievers / cold medicines.

Don't forget also you may want: parking pass for guests who visit you and want to park on the street ($10)

Taxes (make sure you have the correct amount being taken out on your paychecks else you might end up owing a lot to the govt in April which can be tough if you're broke!)


Moving into an apartment for the first time is VERY EXPENSIVE.
Remember that you may have to pay First, last, and security deposit = 3 months rent. So make sure you have $2100 to move in (your 700 budget *3).

Supplies and decor can be a huge budget breaker. Try to dumpster dive when the semester is ending to snag things your dormmates are throwing away that you can use. (microwave, kitchen supplies, rugs, lamps)
Have a friend with a car drive you around during Allston Xmas.
(But stay away from curb couches - mostly gross and not worth it.)

Craigslist
Freecycle

Remember that not everything at Costco is a good deal. Check your grocery/Target flyers for good sales.

In addition to the other very good suggestions here...

[jannyblue.livejournal.com]

You will also need non-food household and cleaning supplies.

Never underestimate the importance of owning a toilet plunger. Odds are you won't need one very often (if at all) but when you do need one, it's ABSOLUTELY essential that it exists.

Spare lightbulbs that fit in the fixtures you have should be stored in an easy-to-find place.

Flashlights should be kept somewhere they will be easy to find in the dark.

A toolbox with assorted screwdrivers, a hammer, a tape-measure and a couple of pairs of pliers/wire cutters. It should also have duct tape and WD-40 in it. If you get a low-end (cheap) chuckless drill, that doubles as an electric screwdriver, hanging up pictures will be VERY easy.

My grocery bills run me about $75 every 2-ish weeks. I sometimes use coupons, but I mainly shop the sales, and have "loyalty cards" for EVERY grocery store in the area (they really help save money). I cook mass quantities on the weekends and freeze individual portions during the week. It's easier than trying to reduce the recipes to make just one serving, and makes it so I do't have to think about cooking when I'm tired and hungry.

Groceries

[thrantar.livejournal.com]

Since it's the only thing I really have any degree of experience with...
While on the trail, I kept myself in food for under $25/week, including a meal out or two. Some advice: many grocery stores, at least around here, usually have a bin of day old 'fresh-baked' goods and items damaged in transit, with can go for 50% or more off. Dropping brand loyalty can save 15% or more. Iced tea is much cheaper home-brewed, and quite easy too.

[blueeowyn.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the whole thread but have some thoughts:
1) Figure out taxes. Once you know where you want to live, you should be able to find on-line information on the taxes for that area. For example, a quick looks says that if you make $37k in Massachusetts, your federal taxes would be 5431.25 and your state would be 1673.15 so your post-tax amount would be around 29,895. This is a rough guess.

2) Figure out what you spend $ on now. Write down everything you spend, if you can separate it into categories, so much the better. For example, have an Excel sheet and have a column for the amount, another for the date, another for general category (transportation, food out, groceries, clothing, medications, recreation classes, entertainment, books/dvds/jewelry/etc., gifts, other) or whatever makes sense to you. If you can factor in since Dec. so much the better.

3) Figure out what you would need to eat in a month to be reasonably healthy and sane (trust me, if you are used to real food, ramen noodles dry with ez cheese WILL drive you crazy after a few days). Go to the store and get a real idea of the costs (including sales tax and getting it home). Assume inflation

4) Find out what you will be paying in health insurance (most plans are on-line somewhere), dental, vision, life insurance, etc..

5) As Whimmydiddle mentioned, budget some to put away each month. My preference is to have a slot at the front of my checkbook and put X dollars there every month so what I see in the checkbook isn't quite true. I can then transfer that lump into other savings every so often. Shorter term, that money can become a downpayment on a house, longer term it could be part of your retirement.

6) Find out what the maximum you can put into retirement is and put it in, that compound interest now will make a difference and if you never 'have' the money you won't miss it.

7) Make a budget for gifts, for example Java and I have 6 neices & nephews + his sibs + my MIL + a bunch of yankee gift exchange gifts to buy for every year. It adds up and we have $$ budgeted for gifts and we try to buy them when we can find a good deal and not get slammed all at once.

8) Get a credit card, have your parents co-sign if necessary. Charge things now and pay it off promptly every month. I got my Discover card while I was in college and put my books on it, got a check from my sire and then used that money to pay off the books or tuition. That lead to the start of a good credit rating. The interest WILL add up frighteningly fast and will compound impressively fast and will usually continue for at least one cycle AFTER you pay it off. There are good reasons to carry a balance but you have to think long and hard about it (e.g. we did when selling 2 houses so when the sale of mine fell through we still had cash for the downpayment on our house).


Add up all the necessary costs (rent, insurance, heat, electricity, water, cell phone (if you need one), union dues, phone/internet, realistic living expenses and figure out how close to the edge you will be skating on your biweekly.

If you base your budget on your bi-weekly salary the extra paychecks can be used for savings or retirement or whatever.