Camera Policy

[sorcyress]

I should be accomplishing schoolythings, or at least packythings, but instead I'm being led off into tangents by rm's livejournal.

Background is that dramashit¹ hit the fan regarding a con in the SPN fandom. You can go read Rach's journal if you want the details on the mess.

Anywho, nancylebov, who I don't actually know in the slightest, made this comment, which I started to respond to, and realized it was going to get long:

Care to take a crack at rules for photographers? One of my most annoying con memories is of a photographer (large white guy wearing bear ears) who insisted that I stop working (I huckster) and look at him while he took my picture. He kept persisting past a number of refusals.

Or is "Your desire to take a picture does not override other people's desires to do whatever they're doing" plus a few rules about permissions and privacy enough?

Response:

Man, "your desire to take a picture does not override other people's desires to not model for you without recompense or choice, especially without knowing where those pictures will end up." ought to just be one of those common sense rules that people magically get. Of course, common sense isn't and all that, but wouldn't it be nice if it was.

(Said as someone who has both taken a fair number of pictures at cons and who has been asked for pictures at cons)

And I do take a fair number of photos at cons, especially animu ones, where you actually get a majority of everyone dressing up (seriously sci-fi fandom, can we fix this? Because that may just be my favourite part of dealing with the anime fandom³). If I want someone to not move, so I can get a nice, non-blurry photo, I ask them. It's an incredibly simple process, for those who don't get it, I provide a simple walk-through.

• Notice someone in a cool costume.


• Pull out your camera, and politely get their attention. This means you may have to wait a moment if they're in a conversation already with someone else.


• Ask "May I take your picture". Possibly add "I love your costume/that character" or "...for my website/blog/flickr" if it's appropriate.


• Wait for them to say yes. If they say no, thank them for their time, and walk away.


• If they say yes, wait for them to pose, and take a picture, maybe two. Try not to take up the entire hallway, especially if you're somewhere crowded.


• Thank them


• OPTIONAL: offer to show them the photo if you're using digital, offer to send them the photo if you're organized enough to do that, give them a moo-card with your flickr account if that's how you roll.


• Walk away and let them enjoy the rest of their con.

I have done this dozens of times, across multiple cons. It works pretty well, honestly, leaves me feeling happy because I got a nice picture, and generally seems to leave them feeling pretty happy because someone liked the costume they worked hard on. If it's an obscure enough character, sometimes you actually get them *really* excited --this girl started bouncing when I recognized her as Daria, and after I snapped the photo, we hugged (Oh hey, there's another thing you should ask permission for...)

On the occasions when they say no, guess what! It's not the end of the world. It's probably not even you --sometimes people are in a hurry, or chatting with their friends, or something messed up with their costume and they don't want proof, or they can't legally afford to be seen in this costume⁴, or the other half isn't here right now, or whatever. Or maybe it is you, and they think you're a creepster --the best way to make them think you're *not* a creepster is to thank them for their time, and go away. Asking why someone isn't willing to give up THEIR time for YOUR photograph is rude at best. They owe you nothing.

And that's me babbling some about photos at cons. If other people have other thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

~Sor
MOOP!

1: I was having a discussion with zombie_dog about this at NEFFA, namely the fact that I strictly make a difference between drama and just problems, be it in relationships, fandoms, friendsships, what have you. I usually tend to define drama as a strictly bad, and usually unnecessary thing. When something big happens, and lots and lots of discussions and arguments get started, and emotions get heated, that's not necessarily drama (or wank²). When people start acting like morons about it, and attacking each other rather than discussing the issue at hand, then it starts to get dramay.

2: They're a little bit interchangeable for me, but I am trying to break myself of using "wank" and "fuck" as pejoratives, because both wanking and fucking are awesome things, and I don't like the underlying idea that a sex act should be our strongest curse. That being said, this is going even more slowly than the not using "lame" thing, mostly because "fuck" is one of those words I use several dozen times a day, really. It just has a good *feel* to it, much like "cunt" --there is a power in the word that, say, "frell" just doesn't have. Hard syllables versus soft maybe?

3: And believe me, I have many *many* least favourite parts about the anime fandom, mostly in the form of horror stories told to me by future-rooommate distant_flicker.

4: I've been there --anyone who saw me at Arisia knows that I've worn things at cons that I really can't have pictures of me leaking out on, because I will lose my future job. That being said, a lot of casual crowd-shots get taken at cons, and the chances of you being able to control every photo of you is nil --all you can really do is limit the number of posed photos.

OHMAN, and I just remembered the last time I was at Rocky, and dolled up appropriately, this asshole journalist just pointed his camera at me and started to take a photo. I wound up blocking it with my hand, and totally going off on him for not asking permission. He seemed more amused than anything else (haha, look at the overwrought little slutty girl) but I felt better for bitching at him. (And he didn't point the camera at me again at least)

Comment Policy: (Eventually I will stop doing comment policies, but they entertain me): None, actually. I mean, if you go about being all "HURR EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP FOR MY CAMERA AND ALSO TAKE THEIR CLOTHES OFF BUT ONLY IF THEY'RE A HOT GIRL" I'm gonna seriously reevaluate our friendship, but have at it.

Comments

[silmaril.livejournal.com]

You do too know nancylebov, probably. Even if not, you are very, very, very likely to own some of her buttons. Something like 80% of East Coast fandom owns her buttons, at a conservative estimate.

But anywhooo. The rest of your article rates a "wordy mcWord," and will also be linked to from my journal tomorrow, assuming you don't mind.

[kdsorceress.livejournal.com]

Oh. That Nancy. Yes, of *course* I know her then, and I do own some of her buttons.

Wordy mcWord is a good thing...? Feel free to link, I don't write things publicly if I don't hope them to be read and disseminated.

~Sor

[jere7my.livejournal.com]

I generally agree, re: asking permission being polite, but it's important to remember that nobody has to ask permission to photograph you if you're in a public place (which includes public areas in hotels, like Arisia). Many many people — including many famous and awesome photographers — take candid shots of strangers. They may have to get you to sign a release before publishing it, if you're clearly the subject of the photo (i.e., if it's not a crowd shot), but journalists and artists often ask for the release after the shot, so you're not mugging for the camera.

Again, people do have some expectation of privacy in a con or inside the theater at Rocky, even though it's not legally mandated, and I think most pro photographers respect that. But if you're really worried about being careful, you shouldn't wear anything in a public place that you don't want on the front page of the Boston Herald. You could end up in a crowd shot and never know, and it would all be perfectly legal.

[kdsorceress.livejournal.com]

Regarding the first, sure, and I forgot to touch on the idea that, when it comes to just pulling out a camera and taking shots, I don't particularly think you need to ask permission or release unless you are planning to publish. It's only if you want to very specifically have the person's attention, to get them to model for you that I think there's a problem.

In Nancy's original example, for instance, I don't think she would've much cared if her bothersome photographer just snapped a couple candids as she was working. It was the fact that she was trying to work, and he was insisting that she pay attention to him and pose anyways that made the situation problematic.

I myself really like candids, and I take a lot of them as well. Usually, I don't ask, even afterwards, unless I think it's a particularly good shot, and I want to offer it to the person, or if I think it's a potentially incriminating shot somehow and want to give them the opportunity to have me delete the photo. Should I be better about this? Maybe. But in a public arena, we live in a world where you get photographed hundreds of times a day already by security cameras and the like already. Being careful, and not doing anything incriminating is probably the best way to deal with that.

I worry about being careful sometimes, and don't sometimes. I'll probably worry more when I'm actually gainfully employed. *shrugs* I do know though --it was mostly that he was very blatantly trying to take a picture of me specifically without any indication he was doing so that bothered me.

~Sor

[thirdbase.livejournal.com]

Are you still going to need pots, pans, etc. next fall?

[londo.livejournal.com]

I sympathize with the picture thing. I have an intense dislike of being photographed that I don't understand, and many people seem to think they have some sort of inalienable right to photo whoever they want.

The worst pooh-poohers, somehow, are extended family members at Christmas time.

[harena.livejournal.com]

*poings through, takes several pictures of Sor, & poings off again cackling maniacally*

[ncarraway.livejournal.com]

Regarding "wank" as meaning self-indulgent complaining (because it's always the details that catch my attention): I think it's actually an appropriate figurative usage. Most people indulge in said behavior from time to time, as far as I know, and there's no shame in either doing so or not in your own spare time ... and sometimes, when people have grown close, they even do it together. It's really not something you need to display on the internet, though, unless someone's paying you for it.

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

I take a lot of candid photos at cons. Some people bitch at me for it, but just as many thank me for the awesome unposed shots that result. One of the best photos I ever got at a con (and can't find in my archives, damnit!) was of a girl in an elevator with me, who I couldn't even see. She came in and got stuck on the opposite side of the crowded space. I hoisted my camera over the center of the car, pointed in the general direction of where she should have stopped, and snapped two shots. She didn't notice either, but found the results later online and wrote me a pretty gushing email about how awesome she looked in them.

[macaroniandtuna.livejournal.com]

Daria came out on DVD today, y'know. (http://www.amazon.com/Daria-Complete-Animated-Tracy-Grandstaff/dp/B0019N8P2W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1273637871&sr=8-1)

[tricia868]

I am always surprised by how many Dead Like Me fans there are in LJ land.

[tricia868]

...obviously that pertained to your icon, and not to the link.

I haven't seen any Daria in years. I kind of want to watch some now.

[macaroniandtuna.livejournal.com]

Grin. DLM is my favorite show.

I just went to watch some after posting that comment last night. Good stuff.

[nurrynur.livejournal.com]

Once, at DragonCon, a creepyish looking dude asked to take my photo. i was actually in a costume, so I agreed. he puts his camera on the tripod, and is fiddling with it. I'm posed and smiling since I don't always expect people to use a flash. After about 15 seconds of just standing there, and him not doing anything, I start to get suspicious that he's actually taking video and not still pictures. or maybe something else. But not actually taking pictures, as far as I can tell. So I walked the hell away as quickly as I could. Anyway, CREEPY. :/

[madbodger.livejournal.com]

I caught a guy taking slimy pictures of scantily-clad women at Dragon*Con. I informed the women in question of his actions. Then I was reluctant to take any pictures of my own, just in case I was in any way being slimy. Fortunately, fizzygeek assured me that I wasn't being slimy at all. Also fortunately, some of the people I had told about the icky guy overheard and made it clear that I was welcome to take pictures of them. Yay people who get it! Boo people who don't.