The clothes make the man
Oct. 19th, 2009 01:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sorcyressSo, like I mentioned, I went to a ball this weekend, and, like I mentioned, I dressed up as a boy for it.
What I didn't specifically mention was that this was the first1 dance event I have ever been to where I not only danced exclusively male3, but I dressed the part as well. So, for the first time in just about ever, I was given a chance to seriously debate the pros and cons of which gender I choose to be at a ball.
The pros of being a guy are numerous, and *awesome*. Like I said in my earlier post, there is a tremendous advantage for me to mark myself immediately as queer. It becomes self-selecting --the people who will seek me out will often (not always) be open minded sort of people, and the people who will avoid me entirely will often (not always) be the sort of people who think I'm going to hell forever for liking to kiss girls. I am okay with not having to deal with that.
Additionally, man, do I *ever* love drag. I'm not good at it --my face is girlish, and I do my damndest to smile when dancing, which pretty much sinks me4-- but I enjoy it. I already know full well that I am a gentleman and not a lady, dressing the part just gives me an excuse to be even more over the top with it all.
I do think my Tenney glasses help at least a little bit though --one of the criteria when I was picking out the frames were for glasses that would not be the breaking point of whether I passed or not. And, of course, the hair absolutely doesn't help in the slightest, but that's never changing, as I look fairly rubbish with short hair.
And the big pro, because I am vain and because I am anxious: I have sig*nif*icantly better period gentleman's clothes than period ladies clothes. I got a couple of both nice and surprising compliments throughout the course of the night. It's nice to know that, despite all the flaws with the outfit (ohmygod, vest, also breeches that fit would be nice, and eventually I'd enjoy a real shirt) people will go ahead and see the good parts (Why that is just about the BEST TAILCOAT EVER, also, not black which *is* period, and I am infinitely smug about, really.)
Also, simple krawatte5 knot with pinning the ends under my vest looked just fine. Although it does bring us to a major con of dressing like a male. See, you know how I have weird neck issues, and weird choking issues, and the like? Yeah, and to make it better, they're exacerbated by panic, or nervousness, or pretty much any serious negative emotion.
High collar, bound tight under a cravat. Add in a healthy dose of "dear gods, they are all going to laugh at me for being so terribly dressed, and then I am not going to know how to set, or do solos, or *anything* and everyone is going to hate me" and you have a Sorcyress who is only avoiding clawing desperately at her neck through sheer force of will.
Ladies get to wear nice swoopy low necked things. Which, you know, me and my complete and utter lack of cleavage *ever* are just so excited about trying to look good in, but at least no neck issues.
The more important disadvantage of being a guy?
Go put on a tight, binding sort of bra. Then an undershirt. Then a long-sleeved shirt. Then a vest. Then a nice big thick (bonus points for wool!) tailcoat. Oh, and don't forget tights *and* breeches!
I managed to not collapse dramatically from heatstroke. But I thought about it a couple times. It would've been quite fantastic, really. And I would've gotten yelled at by half the people there, ohman. Bastards bein' all caring about me. (I appreciate it guys, thank you!)
And this is the big disadvantage, and the thing that might make me try and find a Regency dress of my very own, because yes, it matters to me that much:
Ladies can dance with whomever they'd like.
Gentlemen cannot.
Period, fullstop, end of story. Or at least, theoretically end of story. I am young --the third youngest vintage dancer I know (and the other two are a dance instructor's daughter and her best friend)-- and I like dancing enough to not particularly want to see it (literally) die out. But if I'm going to be in charge of keeping this going (and ye gods, is that a frightening thought), I'm gonna do it my way, and that sure as hell is gonna involve anyone dancing with anyone.
The reasoning, now that I am not scary!ranting, is that "Gentlemen will not dance with each other if there are unpaired ladies". Being in a tailcoat meant that I was counted among the gentlemen for the evening, and yes, even with me and Rach as male, there was still a majority of ladies in attendance. And at this event specifically, there were a fair number of new and inexperienced dancers, almost all of them female.
This is a chivalry issue. The leads/men are expected to ask follows/women to dance, because while women can dance together, they often don't. Furthermore, it is *scandalous* for the women to ask each other to dance. Where is your sense of chivalry! Such pretty ladies should not have to do such a silly thing.
And sure, to a certain extent, it makes sense, especially in couple dancing. If you have two people who can lead or follow, and two people who can only follow, more dancing happens if each lead pairs with a follow. However, much of Regency is set dancing --grab a couple, line up, and mirror each other's movements (for the most part). The Regency waltz is symmetrical --each person places their right hand on the other's back, and their left hands either float elegantly next to them or get joined overhead. The differences between what men do and what ladies do are minute!
However, there still exists the precept that if two leads are dancing together, they are thereby preventing two follows from dancing. An inexperienced dancer may not wish to dance with another inexperienced dancer, or a lady may not wish to dance with another lady. But really, my general feeling is that, if you want to DANCE all you need is another warm body who knows the patterns. It doesn't matter a whit what genders they are or aren't --the only point at which that would be a problem is if you are more focused on flirting than dancing6.
Soyeah. After a reasonably fun line dance followed by a waltz with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
mnemex, the caller of the evening scurried over to scold us for not providing our gentlemanly services to some ladies. I managed to duck my head apologetically, and *not* hiss "fuck you" at someone who I really do respect a fair amount7, but the temptation was very much there. Especially as not going out of my way to break rules meant I danced neither with rm or marcmagus, both of whom I would've enjoyed doing such a thing with.
So that's the big thousand dollar question of whether or not to keep dressing like a boy. If I dress like a boy, I look awesome, I get to play genderfuck, and I generally have a fine and flirty time of things. But I can't dance with any boyfriend I would be lucky enough to bring, not unless he's in a dress (separate, personal, bitchy rant) and passing, and that hurts, honestly. Dancing is how I've found more people worth kissing than anything else (except maybe cons) and I continue to maintain that a good enough dance is better than sex.
Gods, this turned out agonizingly long. Were I a clever writer, I would've split it into two posts, but when have I ever done something useful like that? Also, verdict? I'm vain. I have good looking boy clothes. I'm just going to have to conveniently forget that gentlemen aren't permitted to dance with each other at least once at every dance event ever. Because, yeah, I think it's a stupid rule, and I'm willing to do what I can to fight that power.
((And yes, yes, I'll make up for it by dancing as often as possible with newbies. I'm not a *complete* bitch, jeeze.))
~Sor
MOOP!
1: I...am not sure, actually. I think I went to a night of SCD as Erik2 once, but I also think that dissolved. Plus, it's really hard to differentiate between "girl in a kilt" and "boy in a girl body in a kilt"
2: Erik is the name of my drag persona, though I think he's losing ground to just being Sorcy!male vs Sorcy!fem.
3: Okay, I've never danced a whole event as a boy. But I've been to workshops and danced only the lead's part, on a couple different occasions. And I try to queer it up whenever I can, because it's boring to just dance with the boys.
4: This is one of the most unfortunate passing tips I've ever encountered, but it also seems to be true. I have stared myself down in the mirror, and managed to see Erik when I am seriouspants, but I have yet to ever manage to actually see him when I smile. I don't know if its boys smile different, or less, or what, but I look more boyish when I don't smile.
5: Possibly untrue --die krawatte is "the necktie", I don't know if it also applies to cravats.
6: Not that there's anything wrong with that, and when I'm in full flirtmode at dances, I ask the people I most want to flirt with to dance, not the people I consider the best dancers. This is why (for instance), while I findgenarti a particularly good SCDer, and am always happy to have her in my set, I don't tend to seek her out to dance with --I'm not romantically interested in her, and part of SCD for me is flirting. Flirting at dances is not at all a bad thing. But seriously, it is called a dance and not a flirt for a reason --the dancing takes precedence.
7: Rixogirl, if you're reading this, I'm entirely serious. I do respect you, especially when it comes to knowledge of both the dancing itself and the historical context surrounding the dance. I also certainly respect the difficulty that comes with which historical aspects should and shouldn't be ignored --speakers for the musicians are a good thing, as an obvious example-- and where one draws the line between "too" modern.
But I really *really* do not like having to limit who I am allowed to dance with, especially when I have friends and people I get along with well across a reasonable spectrum of genders.
What I didn't specifically mention was that this was the first1 dance event I have ever been to where I not only danced exclusively male3, but I dressed the part as well. So, for the first time in just about ever, I was given a chance to seriously debate the pros and cons of which gender I choose to be at a ball.
The pros of being a guy are numerous, and *awesome*. Like I said in my earlier post, there is a tremendous advantage for me to mark myself immediately as queer. It becomes self-selecting --the people who will seek me out will often (not always) be open minded sort of people, and the people who will avoid me entirely will often (not always) be the sort of people who think I'm going to hell forever for liking to kiss girls. I am okay with not having to deal with that.
Additionally, man, do I *ever* love drag. I'm not good at it --my face is girlish, and I do my damndest to smile when dancing, which pretty much sinks me4-- but I enjoy it. I already know full well that I am a gentleman and not a lady, dressing the part just gives me an excuse to be even more over the top with it all.
I do think my Tenney glasses help at least a little bit though --one of the criteria when I was picking out the frames were for glasses that would not be the breaking point of whether I passed or not. And, of course, the hair absolutely doesn't help in the slightest, but that's never changing, as I look fairly rubbish with short hair.
And the big pro, because I am vain and because I am anxious: I have sig*nif*icantly better period gentleman's clothes than period ladies clothes. I got a couple of both nice and surprising compliments throughout the course of the night. It's nice to know that, despite all the flaws with the outfit (ohmygod, vest, also breeches that fit would be nice, and eventually I'd enjoy a real shirt) people will go ahead and see the good parts (Why that is just about the BEST TAILCOAT EVER, also, not black which *is* period, and I am infinitely smug about, really.)
Also, simple krawatte5 knot with pinning the ends under my vest looked just fine. Although it does bring us to a major con of dressing like a male. See, you know how I have weird neck issues, and weird choking issues, and the like? Yeah, and to make it better, they're exacerbated by panic, or nervousness, or pretty much any serious negative emotion.
High collar, bound tight under a cravat. Add in a healthy dose of "dear gods, they are all going to laugh at me for being so terribly dressed, and then I am not going to know how to set, or do solos, or *anything* and everyone is going to hate me" and you have a Sorcyress who is only avoiding clawing desperately at her neck through sheer force of will.
Ladies get to wear nice swoopy low necked things. Which, you know, me and my complete and utter lack of cleavage *ever* are just so excited about trying to look good in, but at least no neck issues.
The more important disadvantage of being a guy?
Go put on a tight, binding sort of bra. Then an undershirt. Then a long-sleeved shirt. Then a vest. Then a nice big thick (bonus points for wool!) tailcoat. Oh, and don't forget tights *and* breeches!
I managed to not collapse dramatically from heatstroke. But I thought about it a couple times. It would've been quite fantastic, really. And I would've gotten yelled at by half the people there, ohman. Bastards bein' all caring about me. (I appreciate it guys, thank you!)
And this is the big disadvantage, and the thing that might make me try and find a Regency dress of my very own, because yes, it matters to me that much:
Ladies can dance with whomever they'd like.
Gentlemen cannot.
Period, fullstop, end of story. Or at least, theoretically end of story. I am young --the third youngest vintage dancer I know (and the other two are a dance instructor's daughter and her best friend)-- and I like dancing enough to not particularly want to see it (literally) die out. But if I'm going to be in charge of keeping this going (and ye gods, is that a frightening thought), I'm gonna do it my way, and that sure as hell is gonna involve anyone dancing with anyone.
The reasoning, now that I am not scary!ranting, is that "Gentlemen will not dance with each other if there are unpaired ladies". Being in a tailcoat meant that I was counted among the gentlemen for the evening, and yes, even with me and Rach as male, there was still a majority of ladies in attendance. And at this event specifically, there were a fair number of new and inexperienced dancers, almost all of them female.
This is a chivalry issue. The leads/men are expected to ask follows/women to dance, because while women can dance together, they often don't. Furthermore, it is *scandalous* for the women to ask each other to dance. Where is your sense of chivalry! Such pretty ladies should not have to do such a silly thing.
And sure, to a certain extent, it makes sense, especially in couple dancing. If you have two people who can lead or follow, and two people who can only follow, more dancing happens if each lead pairs with a follow. However, much of Regency is set dancing --grab a couple, line up, and mirror each other's movements (for the most part). The Regency waltz is symmetrical --each person places their right hand on the other's back, and their left hands either float elegantly next to them or get joined overhead. The differences between what men do and what ladies do are minute!
However, there still exists the precept that if two leads are dancing together, they are thereby preventing two follows from dancing. An inexperienced dancer may not wish to dance with another inexperienced dancer, or a lady may not wish to dance with another lady. But really, my general feeling is that, if you want to DANCE all you need is another warm body who knows the patterns. It doesn't matter a whit what genders they are or aren't --the only point at which that would be a problem is if you are more focused on flirting than dancing6.
Soyeah. After a reasonably fun line dance followed by a waltz with
mnemex, the caller of the evening scurried over to scold us for not providing our gentlemanly services to some ladies. I managed to duck my head apologetically, and *not* hiss "fuck you" at someone who I really do respect a fair amount7, but the temptation was very much there. Especially as not going out of my way to break rules meant I danced neither with rm or marcmagus, both of whom I would've enjoyed doing such a thing with. So that's the big thousand dollar question of whether or not to keep dressing like a boy. If I dress like a boy, I look awesome, I get to play genderfuck, and I generally have a fine and flirty time of things. But I can't dance with any boyfriend I would be lucky enough to bring, not unless he's in a dress (separate, personal, bitchy rant) and passing, and that hurts, honestly. Dancing is how I've found more people worth kissing than anything else (except maybe cons) and I continue to maintain that a good enough dance is better than sex.
Gods, this turned out agonizingly long. Were I a clever writer, I would've split it into two posts, but when have I ever done something useful like that? Also, verdict? I'm vain. I have good looking boy clothes. I'm just going to have to conveniently forget that gentlemen aren't permitted to dance with each other at least once at every dance event ever. Because, yeah, I think it's a stupid rule, and I'm willing to do what I can to fight that power.
((And yes, yes, I'll make up for it by dancing as often as possible with newbies. I'm not a *complete* bitch, jeeze.))
~Sor
MOOP!
1: I...am not sure, actually. I think I went to a night of SCD as Erik2 once, but I also think that dissolved. Plus, it's really hard to differentiate between "girl in a kilt" and "boy in a girl body in a kilt"
2: Erik is the name of my drag persona, though I think he's losing ground to just being Sorcy!male vs Sorcy!fem.
3: Okay, I've never danced a whole event as a boy. But I've been to workshops and danced only the lead's part, on a couple different occasions. And I try to queer it up whenever I can, because it's boring to just dance with the boys.
4: This is one of the most unfortunate passing tips I've ever encountered, but it also seems to be true. I have stared myself down in the mirror, and managed to see Erik when I am seriouspants, but I have yet to ever manage to actually see him when I smile. I don't know if its boys smile different, or less, or what, but I look more boyish when I don't smile.
5: Possibly untrue --die krawatte is "the necktie", I don't know if it also applies to cravats.
6: Not that there's anything wrong with that, and when I'm in full flirtmode at dances, I ask the people I most want to flirt with to dance, not the people I consider the best dancers. This is why (for instance), while I find
genarti a particularly good SCDer, and am always happy to have her in my set, I don't tend to seek her out to dance with --I'm not romantically interested in her, and part of SCD for me is flirting. Flirting at dances is not at all a bad thing. But seriously, it is called a dance and not a flirt for a reason --the dancing takes precedence. 7: Rixogirl, if you're reading this, I'm entirely serious. I do respect you, especially when it comes to knowledge of both the dancing itself and the historical context surrounding the dance. I also certainly respect the difficulty that comes with which historical aspects should and shouldn't be ignored --speakers for the musicians are a good thing, as an obvious example-- and where one draws the line between "too" modern.
But I really *really* do not like having to limit who I am allowed to dance with, especially when I have friends and people I get along with well across a reasonable spectrum of genders.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
on 2009-10-20 04:53 pm (UTC)My general opinion is that if I am dancing, and there are more than two people not dancing, I will not feel guilty or annoyed for them. They have their own reasons for not dancing with each other, and I'm unlikely to change that.
(If there's only one person left out, that's a different thing, and I may feel guilty. Butyeah)
~Sor
no subject
on 2009-10-20 05:10 pm (UTC)There's also a matter of the difference between "what is" and "what should be" such that if I pair with a female follow before the guys have found female follows it's far more likely that there will be people sitting out of the next song than if I wait. If I wait, more people dance than if I don't. Sure, it's stupid that more guys don't follow and especially stupid that they don't think to pair together for things that aren't even really lead/follow. but it doesn't make it not true, either.
That all said, I specialize in finding things to feel guilty about.
*and for all I know they'd prefer not to be in the GM at all, although I've been Really Really Bummed to have sit one oiut.
no subject
on 2009-10-23 12:49 am (UTC)There's also some sense in which following can be more difficult than leading, since an inexperienced leader will simply not do much, whereas an inexperienced follower may have to react to all sorts of things that they don't expect or understand.
no subject
on 2009-10-21 08:26 pm (UTC)My problem is that the ladies are pairing when there are men available, but if two men are observed to be dancing together, a complaint will be made regardless of whether there were women available.
Yes, I have had it happen that, after first ascertaining that there were no ladies who seemed to wish to dance, I danced a waltz with another man, and then heard complaints that it was unfair to the ladies that we were dancing together.
If I'm expected not to dance with another man without checking to make sure all the ladies have partners first [and I am], the ladies could at least do me the courtesy of checking to see if it looks like all the gentlemen have partners before asking other ladies to dance. If I'm expected not to dance with another man regardless of whether there are unpartnered ladies, the ladies can damn well make sure all the man have partners before taking an action which will exclude a gentleman from the dance. This is just common courtesy.
Note that, as stated elsewhere, and as I hope to expand upon soon, I agree with your assessment of last weekend's situation and its implications: we shouldn't be frowning at people for opting to dance in same-sex couples at all.