Second of all: So much to say. This comment will undoubtedly take a while to write. Here goes.
I don't think they consider themself to be an abuser, and that's fair, I guess.
Multiple responses to this. Firstly, i wanted to respond to Janny's comment about "They Never Do" because, yes, the "real" abusers (by that i mean the ones who are overtly vicious) don't, that's true. But i think in your case, it's more of a softer thing. i agree that the person in question did not see themselves as an abuser in that overt way. It was their own insecurities that caused the abuse, not some blatant meanness inside of them. (hoping this is making some sort of sense).
It's something i've run into because i've had both sorts, you see. i've had abusers who were just Plain Mean. i've had an abuser who was insane and mean. i've had an abuser4 who abused me much like the one you are referring to did you through their own mental illness and did have true regrets along the way when they weren't caught up in samesuch illness. i said all along the way of extricating myself from that one that they were never malicious & i stand by that statement. That just din't preclude me from saving myself which i finally did.
Another direction that sets me off into with the "They din't consider themselves an abuser" thing, whereby one says they were just behaving that way because of their own brokennesses or whatever... is this. It fills me with the terror that i am an abuser. i abused my little sister because of the unhealthy home we grew up in. i abused my eldest because i was in a horrible place with my own abuser in place. i abuse W every time i belittle her or scream at her when the negvox make me frightened and angry. And this fills me with such fear that i would end up in that box that i do contemplate doing something drastic, 'causeyar maybe i don't deserve to live just like all those other abusers that people say don't deserve to live.
The emotional stuff was probably worse, but I don't talk about it as much --partly because it's a lot more insidious, and makes me look a lot more pathetic.
The thing about that is this. I'd been much much happier if i'd just had an abuser who regularly threw hammers at me (yes, this actually happened; i ducked in time) than one that just did the emotional stuff. Physical injuries heal so much faster and (usually) more completely than emotional ones do. Abuser #1 did the former, Abuser #2 did the latter. Yet, i'd take all those hammers from #1 over the 12 years of emotion stuff that #2 did to me. i still struggle from that stuff. (and don't even get me started on the parental unit abuse which was nothing but emotional and set the foundations of all my Internal Crap and basically are the negvox). That stuff is hard.
That said, i'm glad to see that you got some counseling that has helped! i jump in here and do the now Hypertwin Mantra Originally Started by W's Anna Chant1 at you: "You Can Do It, Yes You Can!" i know it sounds all stupid and contrived and syruppy but this is me we are talking about and you know i mean it ... i have faith in you! ^_^
The other thing that's helped a lot is learning more about rape culture and activism and coming to terms with the fact that there are some shitty toxic narratives that get forced into our throats from day one. I've been doing what little I can to avoid those, when I can.
This goes in a couple of different directions for me and firstly, i just want to acknowledge how horrible it is that we as female bodied people get that stuff dumped on us as a matter of course. It totally sucks.
The other direction is one that i know i've voiced at you before and you've always been wonderful about supporting me and that's the doubt that i even have been actually abused. That i don't have as much of a reason to complain because clearly That Other Person was really raped 'cause i wasn't phsyically restrained and had anything physcially forced on me and so on.
Another thing is the whole "How could you be so stupid to stay with them" thing. For me, i realize that most people who utter that line or something similar are doing so because they have no idea what it's like to be inside that bubble. They are outside and have the objectivity. They have no idea that when you are inside that bubble that you are inside the abuser's mindspace, their matrix, and that's reality as you know it. So that's why. If someone has been telling you for so long that the sky is purple, you look up and and it's totally purple. Never mind that people around you are telling you that it is blue, you know it's purple. (Though, i suppose this is all rehashing on my part, you probly all know this already >.>)
As a side note, even i have been known to say something similar to the "how could you be so stupid?" thing ("if i could escape, then anyone could!") but it's more of an anguish for their well-being than an anger at them for being idiots sort of thing.
Happy Coming Out Day. Sorry it's such a downer this year.
Seriously? It's not a downer. It's an affirmer. You are being brave and strong and so much more than myself who can't even out herself on the LGBT spectrum to the General Public. Sure, most of my friends who Matter to me know but my family does not and i'll probly never tell them because why bother? It'd open a can of worms2 that i haven't the energy to deal with and it's largely irrelevant anyway.
So no, not a downer, an upper. You give me something to Look Up To. i love you dearly, DarlySor and you always amaze me with your Strong and Awesome. Always be kind to yourself because you deserve it.
*hgulges againgain*
1: This evolved when W&Anna&I visited Calyfornay back in 2006 and we giddily rode a train from W's mums' in Redwood City to one side of SanFran & proceeded to walk the entire way to the Golden Gate Bridge on the other side of the city. We totally did it, too, by-the-by, but it took the ENTIRE day (barring stopping to eat lunch). ;D
2: Well, first it would make them go "oh but you've got a man!" Only then i'd be forced to say, Only in body. And then maybe it'd be fine that i would explain about W's gender dysphoria and that actually since i consider myself bi3 that wouldn't matter, right? But my family and extended family are so dysfunctional in the communication department that it would make it hard and i don't really see what purpose it'd serve. If someone could offer a positive suggestion (instead of some sort of Hardline Attitude)(not that i'm suggesting you'd do that but you know i know some people who would :P) maybe i'd consider it. But at this point, i just can't be arsed and so be it.
3: Right and that's another thing that i have self-doubt about (that i don't really count 'cause it hasn't been consummated) but that's a whole other comment/post/whatever.
45: Man, that looks like i collected the buggers as if i enjoyed them or something. Ye Gods. :P
5: 4 because i can't be arsed to change all the numbers >.>
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ninetydegrees
This is rambly and incoherent but hopefully you can parse some of it...?
on 2011-10-12 02:10 pm (UTC)Second of all: So much to say. This comment will undoubtedly take a while to write. Here goes.
I don't think they consider themself to be an abuser, and that's fair, I guess.
Multiple responses to this. Firstly, i wanted to respond to Janny's comment about "They Never Do" because, yes, the "real" abusers (by that i mean the ones who are overtly vicious) don't, that's true. But i think in your case, it's more of a softer thing. i agree that the person in question did not see themselves as an abuser in that overt way. It was their own insecurities that caused the abuse, not some blatant meanness inside of them. (hoping this is making some sort of sense).
It's something i've run into because i've had both sorts, you see. i've had abusers who were just Plain Mean. i've had an abuser who was insane and mean. i've had an abuser4 who abused me much like the one you are referring to did you through their own mental illness and did have true regrets along the way when they weren't caught up in samesuch illness. i said all along the way of extricating myself from that one that they were never malicious & i stand by that statement. That just din't preclude me from saving myself which i finally did.
Another direction that sets me off into with the "They din't consider themselves an abuser" thing, whereby one says they were just behaving that way because of their own brokennesses or whatever... is this. It fills me with the terror that i am an abuser. i abused my little sister because of the unhealthy home we grew up in. i abused my eldest because i was in a horrible place with my own abuser in place. i abuse W every time i belittle her or scream at her when the negvox make me frightened and angry. And this fills me with such fear that i would end up in that box that i do contemplate doing something drastic, 'causeyar maybe i don't deserve to live just like all those other abusers that people say don't deserve to live.
The emotional stuff was probably worse, but I don't talk about it as much --partly because it's a lot more insidious, and makes me look a lot more pathetic.
The thing about that is this. I'd been much much happier if i'd just had an abuser who regularly threw hammers at me (yes, this actually happened; i ducked in time) than one that just did the emotional stuff. Physical injuries heal so much faster and (usually) more completely than emotional ones do. Abuser #1 did the former, Abuser #2 did the latter. Yet, i'd take all those hammers from #1 over the 12 years of emotion stuff that #2 did to me. i still struggle from that stuff. (and don't even get me started on the parental unit abuse which was nothing but emotional and set the foundations of all my Internal Crap and basically are the negvox). That stuff is hard.
That said, i'm glad to see that you got some counseling that has helped! i jump in here and do the now Hypertwin Mantra Originally Started by W's Anna Chant1 at you: "You Can Do It, Yes You Can!" i know it sounds all stupid and contrived and syruppy but this is me we are talking about and you know i mean it ... i have faith in you! ^_^
The other thing that's helped a lot is learning more about rape culture and activism and coming to terms with the fact that there are some shitty toxic narratives that get forced into our throats from day one. I've been doing what little I can to avoid those, when I can.
This goes in a couple of different directions for me and firstly, i just want to acknowledge how horrible it is that we as female bodied people get that stuff dumped on us as a matter of course. It totally sucks.
The other direction is one that i know i've voiced at you before and you've always been wonderful about supporting me and that's the doubt that i even have been actually abused. That i don't have as much of a reason to complain because clearly That Other Person was really raped 'cause i wasn't phsyically restrained and had anything physcially forced on me and so on.
Another thing is the whole "How could you be so stupid to stay with them" thing. For me, i realize that most people who utter that line or something similar are doing so because they have no idea what it's like to be inside that bubble. They are outside and have the objectivity. They have no idea that when you are inside that bubble that you are inside the abuser's mindspace, their matrix, and that's reality as you know it. So that's why. If someone has been telling you for so long that the sky is purple, you look up and and it's totally purple. Never mind that people around you are telling you that it is blue, you know it's purple. (Though, i suppose this is all rehashing on my part, you probly all know this already >.>)
As a side note, even i have been known to say something similar to the "how could you be so stupid?" thing ("if i could escape, then anyone could!") but it's more of an anguish for their well-being than an anger at them for being idiots sort of thing.
Happy Coming Out Day. Sorry it's such a downer this year.
Seriously? It's not a downer. It's an affirmer. You are being brave and strong and so much more than myself who can't even out herself on the LGBT spectrum to the General Public. Sure, most of my friends who Matter to me know but my family does not and i'll probly never tell them because why bother? It'd open a can of worms2 that i haven't the energy to deal with and it's largely irrelevant anyway.
So no, not a downer, an upper. You give me something to Look Up To. i love you dearly, DarlySor and you always amaze me with your Strong and Awesome. Always be kind to yourself because you deserve it.
*hgulges againgain*
1: This evolved when W&Anna&I visited Calyfornay back in 2006 and we giddily rode a train from W's mums' in Redwood City to one side of SanFran & proceeded to walk the entire way to the Golden Gate Bridge on the other side of the city. We totally did it, too, by-the-by, but it took the ENTIRE day (barring stopping to eat lunch). ;D
2: Well, first it would make them go "oh but you've got a man!" Only then i'd be forced to say, Only in body. And then maybe it'd be fine that i would explain about W's gender dysphoria and that actually since i consider myself bi3 that wouldn't matter, right? But my family and extended family are so dysfunctional in the communication department that it would make it hard and i don't really see what purpose it'd serve. If someone could offer a positive suggestion (instead of some sort of Hardline Attitude)(not that i'm suggesting you'd do that but you know i know some people who would :P) maybe i'd consider it. But at this point, i just can't be arsed and so be it.
3: Right and that's another thing that i have self-doubt about (that i don't really count 'cause it hasn't been consummated) but that's a whole other comment/post/whatever.
45: Man, that looks like i collected the buggers as if i enjoyed them or something. Ye Gods. :P
5: 4 because i can't be arsed to change all the numbers >.>