sorcyress | The clothes make the man

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The clothes make the man

So, like I mentioned, I went to a ball this weekend, and, like I mentioned, I dressed up as a boy for it.

What I didn't specifically mention was that this was the first¹ dance event I have ever been to where I not only danced exclusively male³, but I dressed the part as well. So, for the first time in just about ever, I was given a chance to seriously debate the pros and cons of which gender I choose to be at a ball.

The pros of being a guy are numerous, and *awesome*. Like I said in my earlier post, there is a tremendous advantage for me to mark myself immediately as queer. It becomes self-selecting --the people who will seek me out will often (not always) be open minded sort of people, and the people who will avoid me entirely will often (not always) be the sort of people who think I'm going to hell forever for liking to kiss girls. I am okay with not having to deal with that.

Additionally, man, do I *ever* love drag. I'm not good at it --my face is girlish, and I do my damndest to smile when dancing, which pretty much sinks me⁴-- but I enjoy it. I already know full well that I am a gentleman and not a lady, dressing the part just gives me an excuse to be even more over the top with it all.

I do think my Tenney glasses help at least a little bit though --one of the criteria when I was picking out the frames were for glasses that would not be the breaking point of whether I passed or not. And, of course, the hair absolutely doesn't help in the slightest, but that's never changing, as I look fairly rubbish with short hair.

And the big pro, because I am vain and because I am anxious: I have sig*nif*icantly better period gentleman's clothes than period ladies clothes. I got a couple of both nice and surprising compliments throughout the course of the night. It's nice to know that, despite all the flaws with the outfit (ohmygod, vest, also breeches that fit would be nice, and eventually I'd enjoy a real shirt) people will go ahead and see the good parts (Why that is just about the BEST TAILCOAT EVER, also, not black which *is* period, and I am infinitely smug about, really.)

Also, simple krawatte⁵ knot with pinning the ends under my vest looked just fine. Although it does bring us to a major con of dressing like a male. See, you know how I have weird neck issues, and weird choking issues, and the like? Yeah, and to make it better, they're exacerbated by panic, or nervousness, or pretty much any serious negative emotion.

High collar, bound tight under a cravat. Add in a healthy dose of "dear gods, they are all going to laugh at me for being so terribly dressed, and then I am not going to know how to set, or do solos, or *anything* and everyone is going to hate me" and you have a Sorcyress who is only avoiding clawing desperately at her neck through sheer force of will.

Ladies get to wear nice swoopy low necked things. Which, you know, me and my complete and utter lack of cleavage *ever* are just so excited about trying to look good in, but at least no neck issues.

The more important disadvantage of being a guy?

Go put on a tight, binding sort of bra. Then an undershirt. Then a long-sleeved shirt. Then a vest. Then a nice big thick (bonus points for wool!) tailcoat. Oh, and don't forget tights *and* breeches!

I managed to not collapse dramatically from heatstroke. But I thought about it a couple times. It would've been quite fantastic, really. And I would've gotten yelled at by half the people there, ohman. Bastards bein' all caring about me. (I appreciate it guys, thank you!)

And this is the big disadvantage, and the thing that might make me try and find a Regency dress of my very own, because yes, it matters to me that much:

Ladies can dance with whomever they'd like.
Gentlemen cannot.

Period, fullstop, end of story. Or at least, theoretically end of story. I am young --the third youngest vintage dancer I know (and the other two are a dance instructor's daughter and her best friend)-- and I like dancing enough to not particularly want to see it (literally) die out. But if I'm going to be in charge of keeping this going (and ye gods, is that a frightening thought), I'm gonna do it my way, and that sure as hell is gonna involve anyone dancing with anyone.

The reasoning, now that I am not scary!ranting, is that "Gentlemen will not dance with each other if there are unpaired ladies". Being in a tailcoat meant that I was counted among the gentlemen for the evening, and yes, even with me and Rach as male, there was still a majority of ladies in attendance. And at this event specifically, there were a fair number of new and inexperienced dancers, almost all of them female.

This is a chivalry issue. The leads/men are expected to ask follows/women to dance, because while women can dance together, they often don't. Furthermore, it is *scandalous* for the women to ask each other to dance. Where is your sense of chivalry! Such pretty ladies should not have to do such a silly thing.

And sure, to a certain extent, it makes sense, especially in couple dancing. If you have two people who can lead or follow, and two people who can only follow, more dancing happens if each lead pairs with a follow. However, much of Regency is set dancing --grab a couple, line up, and mirror each other's movements (for the most part). The Regency waltz is symmetrical --each person places their right hand on the other's back, and their left hands either float elegantly next to them or get joined overhead. The differences between what men do and what ladies do are minute!

However, there still exists the precept that if two leads are dancing together, they are thereby preventing two follows from dancing. An inexperienced dancer may not wish to dance with another inexperienced dancer, or a lady may not wish to dance with another lady. But really, my general feeling is that, if you want to DANCE all you need is another warm body who knows the patterns. It doesn't matter a whit what genders they are or aren't --the only point at which that would be a problem is if you are more focused on flirting than dancing⁶.

Soyeah. After a reasonably fun line dance followed by a waltz with

mnemex, the caller of the evening scurried over to scold us for not providing our gentlemanly services to some ladies. I managed to duck my head apologetically, and *not* hiss "fuck you" at someone who I really do respect a fair amount⁷, but the temptation was very much there. Especially as not going out of my way to break rules meant I danced neither with

rm or

marcmagus, both of whom I would've enjoyed doing such a thing with.

So that's the big thousand dollar question of whether or not to keep dressing like a boy. If I dress like a boy, I look awesome, I get to play genderfuck, and I generally have a fine and flirty time of things. But I can't dance with any boyfriend I would be lucky enough to bring, not unless he's in a dress (separate, personal, bitchy rant) and passing, and that hurts, honestly. Dancing is how I've found more people worth kissing than anything else (except maybe cons) and I continue to maintain that a good enough dance is better than sex.

Gods, this turned out agonizingly long. Were I a clever writer, I would've split it into two posts, but when have I ever done something useful like that? Also, verdict? I'm vain. I have good looking boy clothes. I'm just going to have to conveniently forget that gentlemen aren't permitted to dance with each other at least once at every dance event ever. Because, yeah, I think it's a stupid rule, and I'm willing to do what I can to fight that power.

((And yes, yes, I'll make up for it by dancing as often as possible with newbies. I'm not a *complete* bitch, jeeze.))

~Sor
MOOP!

1: I...am not sure, actually. I think I went to a night of SCD as Erik² once, but I also think that dissolved. Plus, it's really hard to differentiate between "girl in a kilt" and "boy in a girl body in a kilt"

2: Erik is the name of my drag persona, though I think he's losing ground to just being Sorcy!male vs Sorcy!fem.

3: Okay, I've never danced a whole event as a boy. But I've been to workshops and danced only the lead's part, on a couple different occasions. And I try to queer it up whenever I can, because it's boring to just dance with the boys.

4: This is one of the most unfortunate passing tips I've ever encountered, but it also seems to be true. I have stared myself down in the mirror, and managed to see Erik when I am seriouspants, but I have yet to ever manage to actually see him when I smile. I don't know if its boys smile different, or less, or what, but I look more boyish when I don't smile.

5: Possibly untrue --die krawatte is "the necktie", I don't know if it also applies to cravats.

6: Not that there's anything wrong with that, and when I'm in full flirtmode at dances, I ask the people I most want to flirt with to dance, not the people I consider the best dancers. This is why (for instance), while I find

genarti a particularly good SCDer, and am always happy to have her in my set, I don't tend to seek her out to dance with --I'm not romantically interested in her, and part of SCD for me is flirting. Flirting at dances is not at all a bad thing. But seriously, it is called a dance and not a flirt for a reason --the dancing takes precedence.

7: Rixogirl, if you're reading this, I'm entirely serious. I do respect you, especially when it comes to knowledge of both the dancing itself and the historical context surrounding the dance. I also certainly respect the difficulty that comes with which historical aspects should and shouldn't be ignored --speakers for the musicians are a good thing, as an obvious example-- and where one draws the line between "too" modern.

But I really *really* do not like having to limit who I am allowed to dance with, especially when I have friends and people I get along with well across a reasonable spectrum of genders.

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Speaking as a mostly straight, cis-gendered man, it still pisses me off when people don't let me dance with other guys. I've gotten better at politely but assertively refusing when I get offers to be split up, but I honestly don't know how I'd deal with someone insisting on it -- I'm not really a fan of having large confrontations at dances, but I'm also not a fan of stupid people getting their way.

I definitely flirt with other men, too -- attraction is not at all required for flirting in my book.

And while there's a part of me that thinks the theory that beginners will have an easier time learning if they stick to one role makes sense, I've spent enough time dancing at Bryn Mawr, where everyone learns both roles from the get-go, and which produces a lot of good dancers, to think that the available evidence doesn't really bear out that theory. Even if it does work that way for some people, there's no particular reason why some women can't just learn the gentlemen's role instead of the ladies' when they start out.

This is not to say that I don't mostly dance with women, because I do -- I very frequently wind up dancing exclusively with women on any given night (and it also depends on the gender balance to some degree). I'm not even particularly a fan of completely gender-free dancing, because I think labeling the sides that way makes it easy to remember which is where. But I really don't like being told that I have to dance only with women, and the fact that Regency apparently expects such is making me less inclined to try it, which is a little sad. (And I definitely cannot pass in a dress (the woman who called out, "Excuse me, ma'am," two houses down a dark street earlier tonight does not count), at least not a Regency one -- maybe a late Victorian one, with those giant leg of mutton sleeves and lots of corsetry (and a wig), but even so my face and voice would give it away.)

I suppose I could wear my kilt and claim to be a member of the 51st Division, but I don't really think that would fly.

Oh, and I agree on the heatstroke. Fortunately, it is socially acceptable at Scottish balls for the men to remove their jackets after the first dance, though there's still a lot of wool left, even if it is well-ventilated wool.

I am also curious now about how to smile like a girl.

Also:

I continue to maintain that a good enough dance is better than sex.

How would you know? :-P

I am certainly of the opinion that a good dance is better than bad sex, but conversely good sex is better than a bad dance. When comparing a really good dance and really good sex though, I would be hard-pressed to give you an answer. It might simply vary depending on which one I had most recently experienced.

(A related thought experiment that I sometimes ponder is what I would do if forced to give up my choice of dancing or sex. I'm pretty sure that it would be sex, but it would still be a difficult decision, and I'm not sure that it makes any statements about the relative merits of the best examples of each; rather, it would be about which is more central to my way of life and general happiness.

Also, here is a closing parenthesis:) Yay, symmetrical punctuation!

You have also made me curious about color in men's evening coats and exactly when it went out of fashion; judging from the examples in Men's Fashion: The Complete Sourcebook, black was not unheard of in the Regency period, but did not actually become common until the 1840s, followed by somewhat of a resurgence of color in the 1850s, with black taking over mostly for good in the 1860s.

Incidentally, I have an extra copy of the aforementioned book if you're interested -- it's missing a few pages, but I can copy them out of the complete one if you want it.

<helpful>On another tangent, if you are ever wearing a low cut dress and feeling that your cleavage is not doing it justice or something, I would be happy to stare at your breasts for a while to help remedy this situation.</helpful>

...thank you. That would indeed be helpful, by which I mean make me self-conscious and trip.

~Sor

IAWTC :)

*laugh!* I approve of late closing parens, especially when they look like faces.

I don't actually have evidence to back it up, but I remember attending a con-panel run by Susan and a couple of charming young men who have a vested interest in such things discussing such things where they discussed that not all tailcoats were black in that era.

I quite like the idea of getting a nice green one, though it would be hard to find a shade that is both (semi) accurate and something I'd like to wear.

I am interested, though like I may or may not have mentioned recently, I don't sew, so it would be a bit of a thrift store guide rather than a how-to-make guide.

~Sor

The book in question isn't really a sewing guide, anyway: it has illustrations and brief descriptions, but no construction techniques or patterns. It could be used for sewing in combination with other materials, but it would be just as useful as a shopping guide, since you can flip through and try to date stuff (as I was doing with black tailcoats).

I believe what I was trying to say was that it appears that, if anything, a minority of tailcoats were black in that era (though Marc's comment suggests that that may not be entirely correct). Certainly there was plenty of color.

Also, I have finally remembered to start using this icon, which features (a representation of) me wearing a skirt.

Interesting; I think the dates I came up with when I researched it put black coming in a good 10-20 years earlier than what you cite [with a lot of, but nowhere near exclusively, black in the 1820s-to-early-1830s which is, IIRC, our dance Regency]. I was led to believe Byron was primarily responsible for the fashionability of black, as he preferred it. I've also seen plenty of color in dated plates showing men dancing at balls smack in the middle of our period, and am likely to accordingly go with color [and carry a source] whenever I get around to making my own coat.

Argh. I meant to say Brummell, not Byron, of course.

Well, it's hard to judge accurate proportions from less than ten examples per decade, on average. As I said, black certainly existed in the 1820s-30s; it just doesn't appear dominant until the 1840s. I assume that when he shows exclusively black in a plate it's because there really wasn't any color around, but otherwise it's very hard to tell if it's completely representative or if those are just the particular examples chosen by the author; he might be inclined to show the breadth of possibilities rather than what might be seen in a representative sample.

How would you know? :-P

Because sex is not equal to intercourse.

~Sor

Because sex is not equal to intercourse.

Oh, them's fightin' words! ;-)

And that is a fight to have in a post that my mother can't read.

~Sor

Obviously. There's no town of Sex, Pennsylvania.

Smartass.

~Sor

Certainly true, but I think you would agree that not all kinds of sex are equivalent, either.

And I enjoy waltzing more than ECD.

~Sor

(no subject)

tirerim.livejournal.com - 2009-10-23 00:36 (UTC) - Expand

(You are not allowed to give up either. If anyone tries to force you to, I will bite them.)

Love,
Herbert.

Uh, yeah...due to LJ's poor threading, I got this reply mixed up with the one about helpfully staring at cleavage, and was not at all sure what Herbert was offering to bite.

I'll be in my bunk.

(no subject)

kdsorceress.livejournal.com - 2009-10-22 17:41 (UTC) - Expand

I know I've been breathless and floaty after certain dances :)

Oh sure, attraction is not at all required for flirting, and I flirt with more people than I'm attracted to. But given my druthers, I'd like to dance with people I'm attracted to.

I should note here that I refuse to say that Regency in general expects such (except in a historical context). However, Susan de Gardiola, who is a very good teacher (she is, I think, why I know how to pas de basque) and a generally good person is the person who runs most of the Regency events on this coast, and, for the balls, at least, this is her ruling.

I would not say rule out all Regency for this --I honestly enjoy it more than Scottish, when I get the chance to do it.

I...think that a kilt and a nice tailcoat would be accepted at all the balls except the most anal-retentively period ones. For what it's worth, I'd guess at least a third of the people in attendance were not actually period, just formal.

Also, re: beginners, it is admittedly a *lot* easier to dance in a set when everyone is gender balanced. When they say "go to the gents side", well, if everyone on that side is a gent, it makes more sense than remembering that the gents are on the left when facing the music. Soyeah.

((And gender balanced can mean costumed --for Regency, pants vs not works))

~Sor

I...think that a kilt and a nice tailcoat would be accepted at all the balls except the most anal-retentively period ones. For what it's worth, I'd guess at least a third of the people in attendance were not actually period, just formal.

I'll go one further. It is my memory, although I can't pull sources at the moment, that previous EAS promotional materials explicitly stated that kilt + Prince Charlie was acceptable attire.

I believe further discussion stated that the attire was period [newly introduced...note the Charlie there, though I'm again not with sources at the moment so take this all with a grain of salt], and that there's documentation of Scots wearing the new national costume to formal balls in England.

So, yeah. I'd double-check before taking my word for it, but I've been told it would be accepted and believe it would even be fairly correct.

Interesting—I'd always assumed that the Prince Charlie came about later than that, so I'd love to see sources if you can lay hands on them at some point. It would make sense, though, as that was the period that tartan was becoming all the rage, and an adaptation of the then-current tailcoats to go with the kilt would have been logical.

It's not unknown to see colored Prince Charlies today; I wonder if this was also true when they were introduced. It seems probable, if they were introduced when colored tailcoats were still common.

(no subject)

marcmagus - 2009-10-23 01:04 (UTC) - Expand

I most like to dance with people who make eye contact and smile back at me, and especially so if they are also good dancers. Being attractive to me is also nice, of course, but I think the first two are the most important to me.

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